Peter Pan's NeverWorld

[Peter Pan]

I might add with all due respect, that children - real chronological children - tend to want adults to act like adults - in other words: responsible, in control of themselves, taking care of the child.  They want to be children themselves, but they don't necessarily want adults joining in.  Too many adults today are not responsible, indulge themselves constantly and worst of all in a child's eyes, do not put taking care of the child first.  Children are forced to grow up too fast these days partly because adults refuse to accept the boring responsibilities part of adulthood.

I am not here accusing anyone on this board of being like this by the way.  However I do know that it was when I became a parent that I realized that growing up and putting someone else first was my adult responsibility.  My child had to have  the freedom to have her own childhood.

There's a difference between acting mature/responsible and acting childish.

Anyway, this is a pretty new phenomenon to me. I've never once gotten any trouble about it beyond, "Aren't you a little old..." And with this kid... it's not that she doesn't someone joining in on her childhood. There's no childhood to join in on. The kid is not yet 13 but already 40 years old. And some of the things she's condemning Wendy for are downright superficial.

[TheWendybird]

I might add with all due respect, that children - real chronological children - tend to want adults to act like adults - in other words: responsible, in control of themselves, taking care of the child.  They want to be children themselves, but they don't necessarily want adults joining in.  Too many adults today are not responsible, indulge themselves constantly and worst of all in a child's eyes, do not put taking care of the child first.  Children are forced to grow up too fast these days partly because adults refuse to accept the boring responsibilities part of adulthood.

I am not here accusing anyone on this board of being like this by the way.  However I do know that it was when I became a parent that I realized that growing up and putting someone else first was my adult responsibility.  My child had to have  the freedom to have her own childhood.

There's a difference between acting mature/responsible and acting childish.

Anyway, this is a pretty new phenomenon to me. I've never once gotten any trouble about it beyond, "Aren't you a little old..." And with this kid... it's not that she doesn't someone joining in on her childhood. There's no childhood to join in on. The kid is not yet 13 but already 40 years old. And some of the things she's condemning Wendy for are downright superficial.

40 aside from the 100 pictures of her on facebook doing that same odd hip hop kinda looking pose with her fingers doing that "yo" thing lol Gosh I'll never forget that..pick the best one and use that for god sakes! lol Way too many! lol

Might I add ecb..this is nothing toward you or even your comment..but the term "in control of themselves" kind of makes me laugh since I think most adults today are not. I feel as a "adult child" I have more control than the majority of the society who can't see past that wall/veil to what's really going on in the world....things like falling for advertisements, believing what the news says without question, getting drunk and doing all the lovely things like they show on sex in the city....seems adulthood use to have a lot more innocence about it as a whole than it does today. If that was the type of growing up someone was doing at 12 like my cousin I don't think it would be nearly as horrifying...but its the former that all these kids are in a rush about now.

[Peter Pan]

Society has made, the shedding of innocence as quickly as possible, something to be proud of.

[TheWendybird]

Like kids encouraging other kids to lose their virginity because its a good thing supposedly. Today it's not even a "everybody's doing it" mind set...it seems more like "this is your right of passage...take control of your life....lose your virginity"...arrggh! This actually goes on!

[ecb]

First of all - thank you for realizing that I am not criticizing you - you have the right to live your life as you like   You have found that which makes you happy and that is a good thing.

Oh yes - I know that many adults are not in "control of themselves" - that's what I said - they are too often self-centered and indulge themselves at other's expense (often any children they might have.)  What has happened I think is that it is not true adulthood that is the ideal these days, but eternal adolescence.  It is not odd that a 12 year old yearns to be a teenager (though the forms that teenage behavior can take are certainly up for discussion.) What is bad it that 40 year olds also yearn to be teenagers - and try to act as though they are!  Life becomes a series of toys - even sex, now completely removed from emotion (or heaven forbid - procreation) becomes just one more toy.  No one acts like a grown-up - and that IS bad for real honest-to-God children, who need adults to protect them and give them guidance and yes - even to say NO to them sometimes.

As Noel Coward (who played Slightly in the 1913 production of Peter Pan) once wrote "What's going to happen to the children when there aren't any more grownups?"

[AlexanderDavid]

There's a difference between acting mature/responsible and acting childish.

One of the themes of the book this thread is about.    I will say no more on that....

As Noel Coward (who played Slightly in the 1913 production of Peter Pan) once wrote "What's going to happen to the children when there aren't any more grownups?"

Lord of the Flies.

No, I'm just kidding, that wasn't the point of that book.... 

But I didn't know he was in Peter Pan, that's neat!

[ecb]

But I didn't know he was in Peter Pan, that's neat!

Yep - there's a picture of him in costume in Andrew's book! 

[andrew]

Sir Alec Guinness once said "Actors are all 14 year olds at heart. Understand that and you'll understand us." 

Like everything else in life/death/the universe, I believe the trick is to experience the yin/yang, hot/cold, innocent/mature oscillation between the two - which is NOT the same thing as the average between the two. Hot/cold/hot/cold/hot/cold.... but avoid tepid. Barrie was brilliant at this. "What is genius? To be a boy again at will." Note "at will": a child one moment, a mature adult the next, but at his own choosing.

[AlexanderDavid]

Like everything else in life/death/the universe, I believe the trick is to experience the yin/yang, hot/cold, innocent/mature oscillation between the two - which is NOT the same thing as the average between the two. Hot/cold/hot/cold/hot/cold.... but avoid tepid. Barrie was brilliant at this. "What is genius? To be a boy again at will." Note "at will": a child one moment, a mature adult the next, but at his own choosing.

Couldn't have said it any better.  "Averaging" between the two is stagnation, just as much as staying in one extreme to the exclusion of the other.  Dynamic is the ideal, not static.  Dynamic is more adaptable to various situations--static is stiff and rigid, just like either extreme is.

[TheWendybird]

This has kinda been my point about  how my cousin is acting about me..yes I'll wear piggy tails...yes I'll wear a Tinkerbell or Thumper top...(i like Disney toons)...I'll play with toys etc....but honestly...when it's come to handling many different situations in my life i have been completely mature about it.

Let me say I have a hard time keeping work because of an anxiety disorder I have..it's been pretty severe since I was really little..the longest job I've held has been for 3 months or so...I've since come to realize that kind of work is not for me anyhow..i'm an artist (into music, drama, writing, painting & drawing etc) and i should go with what I love anyhow....so anyhow my 12 year old cousin starts trying to give me advice on why I should go into a normal day job...ignoring that I keep telling her I have a problem and showing her a link about it.....she tried to say maybe if i dressed differently I'd be able to keep a job to which I replied (feeling quite angry but not yelling at her) that I do NOT dress that way or act that way on a job or job interview and that it was insulting to insinuate that. It's really bloody annoying the way people act about me simply cause I love to be that way when I don't have to be serious about something. They act like because I'm a big kid in one way I can't be mature about things in another. I have seen 12 year olds more mature than some of the adults out there...so it means nothing...you can be mature or immature at any age..I think I'm a mature big kid..if that makes any sense....im mature i'm never mean to people..i mind my own business and play with toys and dress how i want and like the things that i want but at the same time i have the common sense to know there is a time and place to act in such a fashion and on the job would CERTAINLY not be one of them unless lets say..perhaps it were toys r us lol Sorry if I rambled but this is exactly why what my cousin says annoys me....I'm doing exactly what you all are talking about and I don't think SHE even knows what she's saying...I really think she's just repeating stuff her parents have probably said about me. People are way too judgemental...they're not around me 24/7 to see how mature I can be with the things I must be...people just can't understand it.

Andrew- I love that quote! hehe I'm an actor as well so I'm sure that only adds to how I am hehe
I've tried to make my mom understand this yin yang thing before...she saw Finding Neverland so I think she KIND OF gets the idea from that but...eh....she's still unsure what to think of it all.

[Peter Pan]

On the other hand, where does society get off forcing people into such a narrow constraint in the first place? Frankly, one should be allowed to go to work dressed as a harlequin if they want. It certainly doesn't mean they're not serious about their work. At one retail place I worked at when it opened, the most outlandish teenager in the whole crowd of employees (neon orange hair, 10 piercings, tattoos everywhere) got the first assistant manager position. So obviously at least some employers knows how not to be superficial. Michael Jackson's kiddie attitude carried him to the rank of the most successful entertainer ever. One would think that says something about society's pre-conceived ideas about what is "good" or "normal." Barrie was certainly right, that growing up, at least by society's definition, makes one a diminished person. The extremes are far too restrictive. How much more ridiculous can the world get, than to be one in which failing to wear a necktie to the office can lead to catastrophic ends?

[AlexanderDavid]

On the other hand, where does society get off forcing people into such a narrow constraint in the first place? Frankly, one should be allowed to go to work dressed as a harlequin if they want. It certainly doesn't mean they're not serious about their work. At one retail place I worked at when it opened, the most outlandish teenager in the whole crowd of employees (neon orange hair, 10 piercings, tattoos everywhere) got the first assistant manager position. So obviously at least some employers knows how not to be superficial. Michael Jackson's kiddie attitude carried him to the rank of the most successful entertainer ever. One would think that says something about society's pre-conceived ideas about what is "good" or "normal." Barrie was certainly right, that growing up, at least by society's definition, makes one a diminished person. The extremes are far too restrictive. How much more ridiculous can the world get, than to be one in which failing to wear a necktie to the office can lead to catastrophic ends?

How about one in which the thing that everyone wants so much that they'll stoop as low as necessary to get it is something that doesn't even exist at all, something whose only value is in giving it away in exchange for something with actual value?

[TheWendybird]

On the other hand, where does society get off forcing people into such a narrow constraint in the first place? Frankly, one should be allowed to go to work dressed as a harlequin if they want. It certainly doesn't mean they're not serious about their work. At one retail place I worked at when it opened, the most outlandish teenager in the whole crowd of employees (neon orange hair, 10 piercings, tattoos everywhere) got the first assistant manager position. So obviously at least some employers knows how not to be superficial. Michael Jackson's kiddie attitude carried him to the rank of the most successful entertainer ever. One would think that says something about society's pre-conceived ideas about what is "good" or "normal." Barrie was certainly right, that growing up, at least by society's definition, makes one a diminished person. The extremes are far too restrictive. How much more ridiculous can the world get, than to be one in which failing to wear a necktie to the office can lead to catastrophic ends?

How about one in which the thing that everyone wants so much that they'll stoop as low as necessary to get it is something that doesn't even exist at all, something whose only value is in giving it away in exchange for something with actual value?

Money=evil but we need it...gah!

[AlexanderDavid]

If we need it, how did our ancestors get along without it, before it was invented?

[TheWendybird]

On the other hand, where does society get off forcing people into such a narrow constraint in the first place? Frankly, one should be allowed to go to work dressed as a harlequin if they want. It certainly doesn't mean they're not serious about their work. At one retail place I worked at when it opened, the most outlandish teenager in the whole crowd of employees (neon orange hair, 10 piercings, tattoos everywhere) got the first assistant manager position. So obviously at least some employers knows how not to be superficial. Michael Jackson's kiddie attitude carried him to the rank of the most successful entertainer ever. One would think that says something about society's pre-conceived ideas about what is "good" or "normal." Barrie was certainly right, that growing up, at least by society's definition, makes one a diminished person. The extremes are far too restrictive. How much more ridiculous can the world get, than to be one in which failing to wear a necktie to the office can lead to catastrophic ends?

How about one in which the thing that everyone wants so much that they'll stoop as low as necessary to get it is something that doesn't even exist at all, something whose only value is in giving it away in exchange for something with actual value?

Money=evil but we need it...gah!

If we need it, how did our ancestors get along without it, before it was invented?

Well I mean we need it so long as it isn't let go of by society....i didn't mean it literal haha sorry. Just as it is...we need it.