Author Topic: Midnight musings...  (Read 12963 times)

andrew

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Midnight musings...
« on: April 01, 2005, 10:31:14 PM »
I trust none of my earlier remarks about "Finding Neverland" - or the fact that I still haven't seen the film - have sounded arrogant, or in any way sour grapes. I'm absolutely delighted that FN has done so well, not merely because it has drawn attention to Barrie (and, by extension, to "my" book/mini-series/website), but it has also put the on-going plight of the Great Ormond Street Hospital on the global map, and might perhaps one day embarrass Disney into donating a greater slice of their Peter Pan profits to the tens of thousands of sick children who would benefit thereby.

I was sent the script of FN some years ago, and was relieved to find that at least Barrie was not portrayed as a closet paedophile, although I can't pretend that I didn't find it all rather gooey on paper. But by all accounts, the boy playing Peter is so fine - and Depp's performance so beguiling - that it reduces audiences to tears... and that's no mean feat in an increasingly suspicious world.

All my boys knew the bare bones of sex before they could walk. They quickly got the point that there are some weird people out there - that for evolutionary reasons we're all born with different sexual appetites, and that a few thousand years ago paedophilia might well have been a successful gene (the guy keeps his sperm count high, the child gets protection) - but that nowadays it isn't such a great idea - indeed so unsuccessful that the rest of society hounds them from our midst. Maybe the gene will die out... at present it's probably present in about 3% of all males, of whom less than 1% of 1% do anything about it... but the point I was trying to make to "my boys" was that there was a tiny chance that they might run into such a guy, but very remote - and that on the whole men (including perhaps many closet paedophiles) were to be trusted, and not to be afraid of striking up friendships with total strangers. In short, had Michael Jackson invited them to sleep over, I would have unhesitatingly said yes - not because I know MJ to be sexually innocent, but because my boys would have known how to deal with the situation, had our Jacko started manifesting any "stirrings in the undergrowth", as Nico so succinctly put it.  

And of course the same goes for Barrie. Every child needs a magician in their life - someone who can demonstrate that non-mathematics is as valid as mathematics, fiction as valid as fact, magic as valid as science. Whatever the short-comings of FN might be, if it has restored some level of confidence in child-adult relationships, then I believe that to be a fine and positive thing. One or two people have wondered about the quotation at the front of my book - "You're old, but you're not grown up. You're one of us." Alexander Puttnam, aged 11."  Sacha was my George. He was 3 was I first met him, the son of David (now Lord!) Puttnam, with whom I was working on a film with Albert Speer. By the time I stumbled on the Lost Boys story - while working with Mia Farrow on Peter Pan - Sacha was 9, and we knew each other inside out. Reading the Dedication to Peter Pan was like holding up a mirror - it seemed I'd known this man Barrie all my life.

What followed - the television trilogy and the book - was in many ways autobiographical, which in turn made it so easy. I remember writing the Barrie/George scenes in about ten minutes - it just flowed out ... the same with the Michael scenes ... (which is what made my son Anno's emergence into a poet all the more uncanny. "Beware, or you may get what you want ...")   So when FN gets criticised for being less than accurate with the historical truth, remember that mine too was largely my subjective POV. I also another huge advantage over FN: whereas they tell Barrie's story in 100 minutes, I had 300 - as I explain in the intro to "my" website, so I won't repeat it here. But overall I get the feeling we're both telling the same story, only one is a little closer to the letter of the law. Cutting out poor Arthur is probably how Arthur would have wanted it; on the other hand it would have made Barrie's relationship with Peter a little more complex. Some critics have pointed out that it was George and Michael - not Peter - who were Barrie's intimates ... which is true, but that doesn't mean Peter's relationship is any less relevant, as anyone who reads his later letters to Barrie from the Western Front will surely agree.

But to get back to the initial point of this ramble, I just want to make it clear that I'm in total agreement with all those who have praised Finding Neverland, for all the above reasons - and one more.

While writing the Lost Boys, I had to imagine what it must have been like for JMB to lose Michael. The reality was totally different. Anno was - and still is - my Michael George and Nico rolled into one. Like Michael, Anno was a poet (and a musician), and as soon as the first waves of grief settled, I determined to publish his poems and songs - probably because I'm in permanent denial, and the on-going influence of those words and songs confirms my "delusion" that he's not dead at all. How strange, it seems to me, that Barrie didn't have the urge to do the same for Michael. Nico had no idea what happened to Michael's poems - and drawings - after he died. Perhaps Peter burned them. Perhaps Barrie did.... although the thought of burning Anno's poems is incomprehensible to me.  So while FN draws attention to my website, so that website has drawn attention to Anno ... and for that I am truly grateful.

mugsy

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Midnight musings...
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2005, 02:36:31 AM »
I have to agree with Andrew---without "Finding Neverland" I would never have read The Lost Boys", found this website or been very touched by the whole story. Depp's performance is wonderful as are the little boys (and Porthos). Perhaps the important thing is that the emotion of the story came across.

I have a hard time believing that Peter was so destructive with his brother's letters---they seem to have been close---what could have possibly been in them? I believe it was said in the book that he didn't burn them until 1952, so perhaps he was in a terrible state of mind---depressed/despairing and took an extreme action---I could cry thinking of what has been lost---we'll never know.

andrew

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Midnight musings...
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2005, 09:49:34 PM »
I do so agree... and yet I feel tremendous respect - almost admiration - for Peter. He was very hard up at the time (see his letters to Mary Hodgson on the database) and could easily have sold them to Yale... and yet, for whatever reason, he destroyed them. I'm sure JMB blessed him on that account - he expressly asked that all his letters be destroyed in his Will (remind me to add it to the database!), but Peter (and Nico as Peter Davies Ltd) actually published his collected letters in 1942, against JMB's wishes. Perhaps burning his letters to Michael was actually an act of selfless generosity?

mugsy

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Midnight musings...
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2005, 05:00:02 PM »
Well, perhaps burning Barrie's letters might have been unselfish, but why burn his brother's, I wonder? My nephew was killed at the age of 15, and I've kept everything I can find---I know people behave differently, but you mentioned in your book that Michael's drawings and poetry are also missing/destroyed. That is a terrible shame. However, I did read the the letter Peter wrote to Mary (on this site) when he burned the letters, and when he said "it was too much" I had a different feeling about what he meant than when I read the same quote in the book (ah---the luxury of access to original documents). This time I felt he meant it was too much emotionally for him to deal with, I felt quite sorry for him.

andrew

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Midnight musings...
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2005, 06:33:57 PM »
I of course agree with wanting to preserve everything of a loved one who has died. I've kept and scanned everything of my son Anno, who was killed at the same age as Michael in 2001... he too was a poet, and all his poems - and songs, photos, videos etc - are now on the internet (at anno.co.uk), but a father's grief is perhaps different from a brother's - also don't forget we're talking about private letters, not poems - what happened to them God alone knows - possibly Michael threw them away? One of the surviving poems is crossed out by him with a sardonic copy, and certainly Peter didn't burn them since he speaks in glowing terms of "Michael's two surviving" poems in the Morgue. I can't believe JMB destroyed them, nor Cynthia .... it's a mystery that had even Nico baffled.

TheWendybird

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Re: Midnight musings...
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2009, 04:28:08 AM »
That post....your "musing" is just amazing. I love it. Me and my boyfriend are big kids...we sometimes go to the local bookstore to write our own stuff and end up play sword fighting with children in there..some parents tell their kids they have to go...but one in particular sat and read his book while we played with his son....we're both really no different than 12 year olds except for the fact we have to take care of certain responsibilities like the bills and what not. We bought your mini series "The Lost Boys" this past fall of '08 and we found it so hauntingly beautiful. We love "Finding Neverland" as well but more for it's playful atmosphere and heart than historical accuracy. There was something so haunting about your series that made us so "spaced out" afterward. Especially this one scene with Barrie thinking to himself while looking out a window...so....I dunno....I can't put it into words at the moment...we know how it feels to want so badly to be able to go outside and play with the "other kids".....we don't consider ourselves grown up. Some may consider us nutjobs....to that I just think some grow up and some don't. Some in my family..like my father (Ironically his name is George go figure :P) think this means we're immature....but this is completely untrue....I know plenty of 12 year olds who act more mature than my dad LOL But we feel this ache to be able to play with other kids....but it's so easy for people to make up stuff these days...or easy for parents to stop it from continuing that we usually find ourselves fairly lonely on that front. We usually end up playing together...occasionally running across a random kid who comes up to join us. It's so sad how paranoid our society is now....because we would never harm a child...but rarely can we find people our age who act like us....Barrie is a mirror for us...and we love him dearly. I just wanted to say that. And we thought your mini series was beautiful! I know this is a response to an old message but hopefully at some point you will see this :)

Nicholas

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Re: Midnight musings...
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 01:54:33 PM »
I saw the film on DVD and was disappointed by the sentimentality.  And Dustin Hoffman's  Frohman was a waste of talent.  However,  the best bit was included amongst the Additional Material.  In order to get the boys to appear to laugh at J. Depp's feeble jokes the director installed a remote controlled fart box under the dining room table.  Seeing the uncut version is extremely amusing, but best of all is Julie Christie's magisterial performance:amidst all the farts and giggles and shrieks Miss Christie never twitches the smallest muscle, but looks with an icy coldness and reserve.  Surely she is our greatest actress and a national treasure.

andrew

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Re: Midnight musings...
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2009, 09:48:12 PM »
I quite agree with Nicholas, although Julie Christie's Emma was the reverse of the real Emma du Maurier, who actively encouraged Sylvia's friendship with Barrie. Not that this was JC's fault at all - blame the scriptwriter! - indeed she was kind enough to send me a letter apologising for having accepted the part in the first place!






smiles

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Re: Midnight musings...
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2009, 11:50:42 PM »
Finding Neverland is a wonderful film.
Having read 'The Lost Boys' and watched the mini series many times I can say with resolve that FN is a fine compliment, it's a fairy tale that has grown from real life events and I'm very sure that JMB would appreciate the irony, and that fact that he was played by Johhny Depp :-) . And it did give us that amazing soundtrack.

The final shot of Peter and JMB fading from the bench in Kensington Gardens is pure magic.

AlexanderDavid

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Re: Midnight musings...
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2009, 09:54:42 AM »
I've been reading Andrew's first post several times now, as I appreciate the sentiment therein.  We need to be a more trusting world--as to the whole pedophile problem, I think the best attitude is to be aware that all adults (pedophiles included) were once children themselves.  Hence even a tiny percentage of today's children may grow up to be pedophiles, closeted or otherwise.

As for Finding Neverland, I enjoyed the film when I first watched it, and still do.  I really only had one issue with it--I consider this legitimate because I knew literally nothing about the story before I saw the film, so I wasn't comparing it in my head to the way it really happened.  The issue was that, much though I liked the film when I first saw it, and despite not knowing how inaccurate it was, I couldn't figure out HOW J. M. Barrie got Peter Pan from the events in that film.  It didn't make sense to me.

However, even being a bit of a purist and now knowing the truth of J. M. Barrie and the Davies boys, I can never condemn Finding Neverland entirely.  Not only do I still enjoy it on its own terms, but it's what led me to seek out the real story in the first place--even though my interest in Peter Pan was rekindled by the 2003 film, I didn't seek to learn the "story behind the story," not until Finding Neverland.

Having said that, though, I'd like to see what they could accomplish if they combined the concepts of The Lost Boys AND Finding Neverland--a feature film compressing the years 1901-1904, say.  I can even picture in my head how such a film would begin and end: the opening credits would show fade-ins of the photos from The Boy Castaways of Black Lake Island (the film beginning after that summer ended), and the last 20-30 minutes would show a condensed version of the debut of the play, attended by Barrie and the Davieses.  It would use a series of flashbacks, and would have a double focus: Barrie's relationship with George, and his writing of Peter Pan.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 12:24:16 AM by AlexanderDavid »

mikewill

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Re: Midnight musings...
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2009, 02:02:56 PM »
I think it was sad and unfortunate for future scholars and laymen that Peter probably destroyed Michael's letters and other effects in 1952 during a very stressful period in his life and most likely suffering from almost clinical depression.
As I posted elsewhere, there is a parallel with what Peter did. Robert Todd Lincoln (who was noted for his periods of depression) destroyed almost all the correspondence between Abraham Lincon and Mary (Todd) Lincoln as well as letters written to Robert at prep school and Harvard from Willie Lincoln. I just had a book published (I am a US writer) on the friendship and life of my great-grandfather, a sergeant in the Pennsylvania Volunteers at age 19 who was stationed at the White House in 1861-62 and was befriended by Lincoln's son Willie who tragically died at age 11 on February 20, 1862 of typhoid/small pox/pneumonia. Willie, like Michael, was already a precocious poet, speech writer and letter writer who was most like his father and had great potential...he aspired to be a preacher or teacher. Lincoln never got over the death of his beloved son.

I also posted another question that no one has replied to but I am sure Andrew has some ideas: the origin of Michael's fear of water??

Donald Motier

andrew

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Re: Midnight musings...
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2009, 09:50:39 PM »
I'm afraid have no idea why Michael had an innate fear of water; more to the point, nor did Nico. One can endlessly specualte about these things, but in the end that's all it is, speculation.

TheWendybird

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Re: Midnight musings...
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2009, 03:49:50 AM »
I've been reading Andrew's first post several times now, as I appreciate the sentiment therein.  We need to be a more trusting world--as to the whole pedophile problem, I think the best attitude is to be aware that all adults (pedophiles included) were once children themselves.  Hence even a tiny percentage of today's children may grow up to be pedophiles, closeted or otherwise.


This is very true...and I do not condone pedophilia BUT me and my boyfriend have a theory as to why the whole thing has gotten so out of hand. I'm sure some of them are really just insane and hurtful people but....has anyone ever thought......i'm curious...as to whether maybe the problem has gotten so out of hand due to the lack of innocence in the world? Think about it..even children today don't act so much like children as they did when I was little even (I was born in '83 and even back then I was a bit eccentric compared to the other kids who worshipped singers like Samantha Fox while I had no idea who she was). Is it at all possible that a lot of adults...because of the blurring line between love and sex in our society...and because perhaps they want their childhood back or think they can't be child like because the world would think them weird....that they end up acting out this form of repression in an unhealthy way like with pedophilia? We've thought seriously about this...does anyone else think this is at all possible? It's no excuse but it's an interesting thought...and a good reason for people to stop conforming and realizing if they want to be child like they should just go ahead...and maybe some of these issues will...er..not be so wide spread? Like what if there is a guy out there who finds a woman who is child like like himself...and in the end only for her he might have become one due to not having anyone like himself? It's just a thought...hopefully this doesn't sound jumbled or something ..not that great at explaining online as I am in person..hopefully this makes sense...